Ed Markey's Subcommittee has hearing on Virtual Worlds (not an April Fool's joke)

By
Andrew and Alex
on April 1, 2008 9:31 AM | | Comments (978) | TrackBacks (2)
We're going to be semi-liveblogging the hearing as I can take breaks. 

9:39am: Chairman Markey describes this as one of the most "fascinating hearing we've ever had." In fact, they are simulcasting this hearing in Second Life. Chairman Markey's avatar looks like it's been working out, apparently. 

He welcomes an avatar named "Wild Cunningman" who was created by a group of adults with Cerebral Palsy in Markey's district. He cites this as a prime example of how broadband can empower those with disabilities. 

Also, Mitch Kapor (of Lotus fame) is also present in the 2nd life hearing room. Also, Avatars from several journalists, NOAA, and other agencies are present in the virtual hearing room. 

Markey is waxing eloquent about the beauty and power of virtual worlds as the cutting edge of "Web 2.0" *groan* and lumps them in with Facebook, Flickr, etc. Cites IBM as an early adopter of virtual worlds, and touts their usefulness in the future of business.

Markey is concerned that real-life concerns will spill over and require policymakers to watch virtual worlds to make sure virtual people have the same rights as the people behind the avatars. Markey, however, is adopting a totally positive tone on this.
 
9:45: Stearns (R-FL), Ranking Member speaks, is proud of this being the first "virtual hearing." He notes Markey's avatar is younger, faster, stronger.
 
Online virtual worlds are limited only by creativity and bandwidth.

Stearns is excited by the possibilities of a highly competitive (but not highly regulated) world, and he believes that virtual communities can be the future of the internet. The hearing will explore some "challenges" that Linden Labs has encountered while building second life. 

Notes that IBM uses 2nd Life as a videoconferencing system. WSJ reports that 2nd Life's GDP is $500-600 Million. Some gamers consider their virtual friends equal to their IRL friends. Is he being sarcastic?

Stearns wants to be vigilant about crime, "online communities enable...vicious social ills...and sexual predators..." Commends Linden for being pro-active. 

Stearns offers to take over the Subcommittee if Markey wants to stay in Second Life.

Next is Harman (R-CA). Harman notes that Congress can be considered a virtual world, that they might as well send avatars to vote for them. Notes that 2nd Life can provide language training, commerce, and things that we can't imagine right now. 

Harman brings up the spectre of Terrorism, that Islamic Terrorists are using Second Life. She's not advocating censorship, but says that a clear understanding will help us fight. Thanks the Chairman (and his Avatar). Suggests that the real reason Markey holds the hearing is to gain experience points in WoW, but that it only carries 2 points.

Shimkus (R-IL) is up next. Notes that Avatar means "god" and that Virtual Worlds portray things that might not be real, and admits his ignorance and wants to learn.

Markey: "only Lobbyists see us as gods."

Boucher yields to Eshoo.

Eshoo (D-CA) welcomes Linden's reps from her district. Mentions the phrase "get a life." Notes that Social Networking was once considered dumb but is now a major force, and sees the same for virtual worlds. Says the technology is transformative, allows for new ways of learning, collaborating, working, etc.  Eshoo refers to the VA Tech tragedy in Boucher (D-VA)'s district, and the memorial there in 2nd Life. She's excited, but has to excuse herself for an intelligence committee meeting. "This is a Real Markey Hearing."

Next is Stupak (R-MI). 

Number of subscribers will pass 50 Million users in '08. Over 60 schools have set up virtual schools in Second Life to teach effectively to students thousands of miles away. Mentions that many companies have opened virtual storefronts. Stupak of course brings up the law enforcement angle, brings up last year's Social Networking hearings, and wants to know about child protection. Cites the (bad) statistic that 1 in 5 kids are sexually solicited online, and raises questions about anonymity and the speed which anyone can change identities.

Also, Stupak is concerned over addiction to the programs. 

Green (D-TX) notes that he might not break his finger playing basketball on Second Life. Doesn't play, but is looking forward to hearing about commerce, brand promotion and educational uses of Second Life. Notes that former VA Governor Warner (D) had an Avatar. 
 
Green brings up broadband, looks forward to a 3rd pipe.
 
Doyle (R-PA) notes that the hearing is in Second Life, but not the only virtual world. Shows avatars of him and his staff. Notes that because tomorrow is World Autism Day, notes that virtual worlds allow those with Autism to have a voice in ways that other methods have failed. Puts into the record a Wired article (I am looking for link now) about Second Life and how it has helped Autistic people.
 
Doyle brings up Net Neutrality. Instead of bandwidth scarcity, we need to have an abundance and build more bandwidth.
 
First Witness: Phillip Rosedale - founder of Linden Labs, former CTO at RealNetworks. Rosedale's opening statement..."virtual worlds are fundimentally altering the way the internet is used...and changing the nature of communication itself..."
 
He believes he is creating a new platform for the 'net in every way, social, educational, scientific. Linden was founded for community experience.
 
900k users in past month of Second Life. 50-60k logged in at any time. Why growth? Second Life is the next step in the use of the internet, allowing a 3D environment far more rich than the 2D world. While it started with playful self-expression, it's starting to have real-world implications for educators, scientists, protests, commerce, and mixing across real-life boundaries caused by geography, language, culture, or lack of information. Prepared a video. Let's watch.
 
(video)
10am
Gartner says by 2011, 80% of users will have avatars.
 
Second Life's microeconomy helps entrepeneurs. Developers earn real money for designing avatars and platforms.
 
Points out Harvard's Berkman Center has a presence in Second Life. UIUC's School of Public Health lets gov't agencies simulate problems and learn from them. Non-profits hold fundraisers. Grassroots efforts get planned, tested and executed. He's referring back to the Autism thing again. Now we're talking about Second Life job fairs for real jobs. Even Gov't agencies have used it (repeats NOAA story again).
(/video)
 
So why does this matter? Rosedale marks a big leap forward for communicating over distance, with presence even if users are miles apart. Multi-tiered platform with dimensions that do not exist. Better than traditional videoconferencing. That's why large companies are using Second Life.
 
Also, entrepeneurs have been able to create an economy, and it will spill into the real economy.
 
Markey notes his only request was that his avatar have a green tie.
 
Next witness: Susan Tendee of TechSoup to talk about non-profits in Second Life. Allows non-profits to better understand communities not their own, and create presence for fundraising. This goes beyond how they have leveraged existing social networks...lets them discuss climate change, human rights, other issues. Non-profits are at the forefront of Virtual Worlds, and Second Life is the king of them. Easy way to bridge communication gaps and archive activites.
 
Examples; Virtual Vietnam Memorial. Lets wheelchair-bound people run, etc. Provides safe haven for AA, Cancer Support Groups, etc.
 
Rich educational experiences like walking throguh a human heart...
 
Non-profits across the globe can use this stuff.
 
Next Witness: VP of Digital Convergence from IBM.
 
This augments the capabilities of the net. IBM is a firm believer that virtual worlds can improve both private sector in government by promoting and supporting learning, participation and commerce. IBM is working to "unlock the business value" and drive entreprenurial activites...
 
Final Witness: Larry Johnson, leads a consortium of academics working in virtual worlds.
 
Notes that he is the same IRL and 2nd life. No matter what happens in a virtual world, only extends our understanding of the real world. These are not games.
 
(taking a work break...will be back during questioning, or Alex will)

(hi, it's Alex filling in now and then)

Questions:

Markey wants to know what kind of transactions in Second Life raise "red flags"

Answer is when Linden Dollars get converted to $US. Software allows them to examine transactions. Notes that the fraud rate is .2% when the regular e-commerce fraud rate is 1%. Markey asks about recourse...answer is that Linden doesn't regulate transactions between buyer and seller, caveat emptor, but has a degree of accountability and traceability that beats the real world. There is a trail of ownership with digital objects.

"We are in a reasonably good place overall."

Markey to IBM: What kind of jobs does IBM have in 2nd Life?

A: Telecommunications, health care, development jobs...collaborations that can take place across the global economy.

Stearns: Do any POTUS candidates have avatars?

Rosedale doesn't know. They're not sure who has them, and to his knowledge the Second Life election hasn't begun.  Stearns asks why he's stepping down as CEO as of 3/14. Answer is that he wants to focus on design and development, not management. *Paging Mark Zuckerberg!*

Stearns notes that there is a 2nd Life for teens. How does he keep adults out and visa-versa?

A: They take child protection very seriously. Teen Second Life is very social, and their best practice is to educate users to identify anyone who might not be a teenager. Stearns asks about people "camouflaging themselves" as teens. How do they check? 

Rosedale requires a stronger degree of initial identity, but doesn't ask for drivers' license or Social Security number, but asks for telephone information and self-description. Stearns is a bit paranoid, says people have "covert intent" and accuses Linden Labs of not screening "beyond their own words." Rosedale is handling this well, and notes that users are "rigorously self-policing" and this far there is no evidence. 

Stearns asks if they use the FBI. Rosedale says they've invited the FBI into the "main grid" but haven't had a reason to do otherwise in the "teen grid."

Question: why aren't you proud 2nd life has made money?

A: More proud that individuals are able to make money in 2nd life.

Harman is up now. Notes this AM's Roll Call.

Points out Sunday TImes article "Virtual Jihad hits Second Life" (looking for link) and talks about extremists using Second Life to communicate, prostheltize, blow up virtual buildings, etc. Harman is not advocating censorship (she says) but wants to know what we can do to make sure these "glorious tools" don't facilitate terrorism. Asks Rosedale to elaborate on policies against illegal activities.

Rosedale: When people extract money, they run it through several tests. Anything larger than US$10, a real person looks at it. Can look at transaction history and use pattern recognition to find "non-standard" behavior which is easy enough to spot on money side. Two more issues:

w/r/t Terrorism, he hasn't seen ANY evidence of it. second, because identities are recorded along with activity, virtual worlds can be MORE policeable.

Harman isn't letting go and asks other witnesses:

Witnesses aren't biting, and speak positively about how Second Life users defend their own community as their own. Good for them for not taking Harman's scaremongering, ignorant bait.

Now it's Shimkus (who doesn't have an avatar, he notes). Shimkus brings up OECD broadband, and asks 4 Dingell yes-or-no style questions:

Are you aware that if every country applied OECD broadband standards, USA would drop?

Are you aware that USA has 4 times Second Life users than next country? Yes.

Are you aware that USA has 6 million broadband subscribers, more than next three combined? Yes. (DEFINE BROADBAND!!!)

Are you aware that if you break down by state, 8 states would take the top spots, bottom 3 would still break EU rankings. Shimkus is pissed that we're being compared to Europe. He thinks it's unfair that we compare ourselves to Europe in broadband penetration. (He is a pro-market, competitive republican, he says) and is concerned about government manipulation of markets.

To Rosedale: Why limit users in the hearing? Does that make "network management" necessary? (stupid, stupid stupid question. not sure what Shimkus wants to hear...)

Rosedale: Much like in the real world, you can establish a capacity limit. He's not sure how they limited who could be in the same room. It's pragmatic because of individual's computing capacity, not network.

Now Shimkus wants to know if there are churches on Second Life and is baiting Rosedale (who is a Jew) to admit that they restrict fundamentalist christianity on the service. Rosedale didn't bite.

Stupak wants to know about the minimum speed required, and the ideal speed.

Answer from Rosedale: any broadband connection. several hundred Kilobits/second. Second Life can scale to more, improving the quality of the experience. As we improve broadband, we can improve the world. 

Now Stupak is scaremongering about child predators on Second Life. He's basically asking how much spying Second Life does to find "predators." Rosedale says they can review communication history for several weeks, long enough to investigate. Repeats that the community is self-policing in an aggressive manner, and that the community has had little to no activity in that manner, and when it has popped up, they have dealt with it. 

Stupak wants to know of Second Life runs Dateline-style "stings." While Rosedale says the company hasn't, he wouldnt be shocked if police have.

Now he asks about addiction to the good Doctor. Answer is that it's more related to the gaming market, and that in an educational context he hasn't seen it. 

Rosedale defends himself aggressively against this idiotic line of questioning, saying that Linden doesn't impose a limit on use, and that some applications (building businesses) might be good to spend more time in for Americans.

Stearns asks about future 3D capabilities. Answers generally follow the course of normal innovation. These questions are getting inane. Stearns asks if IBM is making money in 2nd life. Response is that it's more a marketing experiment, and that there is maybe cost savings in training.

(is Stearns getting to a tax issue?)

He asks: what makes IBM want to use Second Life? 

Answer is that the 3d simulation makes it easier for people to use and understand. Simulation-based training is more cost-effective. 

To Dr. Johnson: Why treat avatars and people the same? They can have a different kind of lifestyle. Answer: People are still the same, but  Avatars let them express themselves differently. Bottom line is that we connect in the same way that we connect in real life. 

Rosedale says that people are "extending" their identity. People have an attachment to their avatars. These identities are durable and sustained. A benefit is that there is a lack of anonymity because in business and social contexts, people want to maintain reputation. 

I think that's it. Gavel is down, hearing is closed.  

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